I think a lot of people have this question, both Catholics and Protestants. 23:2), some of whom were not Pharisees. It only states that Jesus was an exception to this because he had a divine nature, not a sinful nature, as well as a human nature. And we can actually discern from others passages in scripture that Jesus brothers are his biological younger half siblings. Dr. Steven Christie, MD is a Diagnostic Radiology Specialist in Miami, FL and has over 28 years of experience in the medical field. If Mary kept the law, she could not be made righteous since righteousness does not come from keeping the law, but through Christs death. Well the thing is, in both cases in the Septuagint and in Lukes gospel, theyre both in the perfect passive of participle, so theyre being used the same way. Dear catholic.com visitors: This website from Catholic Answers, with all its many resources, is the worlds largest source of explanations for Catholic beliefs and practices. All right. The proclamation on Marys immaculate conception says that the fathers unanimously believe that which is false. And they did not want people following them. Cyril of Jerusalem refers to Baruch as the prophet, cites Baruch 3:35-37 in defense of the deity of Christ and includes Baruch in the writings of Jeremiah in his list of the canon. A person could be a Protestant, because we have to understand what a Protestant is and we have to go back to the Reformation for it. Second thing I want to point out is you should consider joining our locals community. Yes, and Christie admits they did, though he thinks we can discern which Jews had the correct canon of Scripture. A four-month investigation found the late Ravi Zacharias leveraged his reputation as a world-famous Christian apologist to abuse massage therapists in the United States and abroad over more than. Yeah, no, no, no. Agreed. Now Steve mentioned and many other Protestants allude to Matthew 1:24-25, which says When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him. And then take heart in knowing that these teachings about Mary dont contradict Scripture, and then we can further infer and try to understand what are the sources of divine revelation. So if Andrew is Jonahs son, too, because Andrew is the brother of Peter, then why cant James, the brother of Jesus, also be the son of Mary? She is not mentioning sin in any case. Yeah. Qualification, rates and payments will vary based on timing and individual circumstances. Those would be irrelevant to the question. So much the same way Jesus was free from original sin and personal sin, yet when he was on the cross, its not like the nails couldnt go through his hands because hes free from sin, so hes immortal. For example, although Josephus seems to defend what is equivalent to the Protestant canon, scholars recog-nize his propensity for exaggeration. Okay, Trent. And then whenever you start speaking, Ill click the time. Select this result to view Steven Luke Christie's phone number, address, and more. This dogma was defined by Pope Pius the ninth, but not ex cathedra in 1854 and is not shared by the Eastern Orthodox, despite not skisming with the West until the 11th century demonstrating that this was a much later development foreign to the New Testament writers and the early church. If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died needlessly. Galatians 2:21. In Maccabees would be an example or the Jewish work Joseph and Aseneth. But while infants may not have committed a personal sin, they still need salvation in Christ because they inherited original sin. Steve Christie (Author of Good Deed) Steve Christie Goodreads Author Born in Aberdeen Scotland., The United Kingdom Website http://stevechristieauthor.blogspot.co.uk/ Twitter schristieauthor Genre Crime Influences Great Scottish fiction writers who can conjour up a good descriptive s .more Member Since August 2010 URL . And in the new Testament, the specific Greek word for savior is used about two dozen in times, and every time that its used in scripture, in the New Testament, it always refers to God or Jesus being a savior of salvation and saving someone from sins, which is why I brought up Acts chapter five and The Epistle of Titus. Other arguments, I think are bad, the claim that Mary had to be immaculately conceived because Jesus could not be conceived within a woman who is sinful. Im not sure why she would be surprised when told that shes going to have a son, given that under Jewish law, she and Joseph were free to engage in conjugal relations even right at that moment after the angel had left. Many Protestant scholars say Wis-dom 2 either contains a messianic prophecy or Matthew used this passage as a template when he described Jesus crucifixion. Well, Scripture seems silent on the matter, not resolved, but at least it doesnt contradict Scripture, then I would say we should treat the Marian dogmas like youre a Protestant. Born Okay. Yeah. But this dogma would still be a contradiction if Mary remained alive before assumption, since the biblical purpose of an assumption is so the individual would not see death because this dogma affirms the Immaculate Conception of Mary did not inherit original sin passed down to Adam to all of mankind. If I could just. Because you could say, Well, Solomon is the son of David, but David had many other children besides Solomon. Because if you look in Strongs Greek Exhaustive Concordance and how it is used in the New Testament, which is what the debate is about not extra biblical work, it is used consistently and only to describe biological siblings. But in his encyclical, [foreign language 00:20:13] Pope Pius the 12 said Mary is the new Eve who is free from all sin original or personal. Does the Bible say that Mary herself committed a personal sin or that she inherited original sin? May 31, 2022. It just means somebody is wrong, whether it be me or another person who calls themselves Protestant that accepts these things. So Im not saying that Catholics are actively worshiping Mary or statues of Mary, but we have to be careful with the word of veneration. All serious students of God's Word need to know these Christian apologists below. And I also have a video about seven popes, and possibly eight popes, that did not believe in the immaculate conception of Mary. Prototokos, I dont have a problem with the term, meaning first out of the womb, but in Luke chapter two versus 22 to 23, this is a different event. What he lived by, he died by. Aaron Frederick, one of my YouTube subscribers, rightly observed, In a courtroom, evidence that is thrown out or dismissed by a court cannot be used to find a verdict. But I mean, some of the early ones, Id probably Definitely not Judas Iscariot. Thats fine. After leaving the Bills after the 2000 season, Christie played with the Chargers and Giants. Christie kicked a successful onside kick, which he recovered himself (becoming the first placekicker ever to do so in an NFL playoff game), and also kicked the game-winning 32-yard field goal in overtime. The importance of discussing these Marian dogma is more than merely to debate them. In order to justify that claim, Christie would have to present a standard that tells us what writings prior to Christ are inspired and why we should accept that particular standard. But they disagree about that because at least infant baptism, for many Protestants, at least it doesnt contradict Scripture, even if Scripture is silent on the matter. Well, actually one other point I will bring up is that some people say the Bible teaches that Mary sinned, because it describes her going and offering a purification in accord with the Mosaic law. From 1992 to 2000, Christie kicked for Buffalo. Type it in. - Fr. Well, the answer to the question needs to be in relation to applying it elsewhere in scripture because theres a lot of people that are mentioned in scripture that doesnt say that they had any children. In fact, as Baptist scholar Lee Mcdonald points out, the book of Malachi only implores its listeners to remember the law of Moses, which would be strange if there were a fixed set of writings established by Ezra called the prophets at this time. Then theres going to be a time of cross-examination, and then were going to do 30 minutes of Q&A. So if youre going to say Mary sinned because an offering was made, then youd also have to say that Jesus sinned as well. Okay. It doesnt even imply that. Steve Ray is a Apologetics, Convert, Evangelist travelling from , Michigan. Who was the first person you could say, Yeah, thats my theology. Mark - Hello Christie, thank you so much for . And Steve has not ruled that out. So theres nothing in scripture that contradicts that. Just a shameless plug, like I said, Im an author of two books. We have to remember that. I mean, its not a good proof text to use. Oh, youre on mute. WHY PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SMALLER: A Defense of the Protestan Not Really "Of" Us: Why Do Children of Christian Parents Aban http://stevechristieauthor.blogspot.co.uk/. Mary did not need to be immaculate conceived since sin is not a trait that is passed down physically, but a spiritual condition. Check out our newest Lake Effect team. Though, I will say the Septuagint was completed only within a few centuries, possibly even one century, by the time of Jesus crucifixion. Rather, this is Mary simply being obedient to the law just as Jesus submitted himself to baptism for the sake of all righteousness. I would say that this is a really important question and one for us to look at, that for Protestants and Catholics to have dialogue with one another and to get closer to the truth, I think its huge to be able to move from And what this debate is about, is about do these beliefs contradict Scripture? Just want to offer an encouragement for those who are watching in the live chat or who watch this later. If Luke was communicating Jesus was Marys only child, he wouldve used the Greek word [foreign language 00:04:55] translated only begotten, rather than [foreign language 00:04:57] like he did elsewhere in his gospel, such as in Luke 7:12, 8:42 and 9:38.And in John 3:16, where Jesus is the only begotten son of God, meaning the only one. In the early church, there was a heretical sect called the [Cororidians 01:25:03] and [Epiphanias 01:25:05] condemns them. Hes saying that every ethnic group is guilty of sin, whether youre a Jew or a non Jew. Lets take a look here. She goes on to say, My spirit rejoices in God, my savior for or because he has regarded the lowest state of his handmaiden. Mary then describes how God saves people from threats in this life by exalting the lowly or feeding the hungry. The Story of Reality: Apologist Greg Koukl Discusses His New Book. [These verses] cannot figure as crown witnesses for the view that the Old Testament canon in Jesus days was fixed and closed (The Blood from Abel to Zachariah). So wed only asked does the bible teach that Mary had sexual relations. His father was a drummer during the Big Band Era and played with the likes of Tommy Dorsey and Artie . Yet many Protestants believe in this doctrine. All right. The 34-yard field goal came with just :03 seconds to play, lifting the Bills to 4-4 on the season. Things like whether shes Mediatrix or Co-Redemprtix. [It undermines] the theory that there was a single canon by the late first century C.E. (The Scrolls and Biblical Traditions, 41-43). I do remember in that debate with James White five years ago, saying, Our theology should come from the Bible, not the Bible from our theology. And I was not arguing for Sola Scriptura. Sure. Well start with an easy one, the Bodily Assumption of Mary. 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