My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. The real issue is that the timing chain tensioners wear so quickly. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. 19. Would like to do that test myself. It just comes and goes but only rattles on some start ups. Check the valve cover gasket. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. Is a brake light and running light the same? This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle. How long should an average timing chain last? User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. OP, did you replace the $5.00 valve in the oil filter cap? The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. Like this content? 20. 15. GM 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 liter engines can make a sharp engine rattle noise at startup and set any of the following trouble codes on the vehicles listed below. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. In the worst case scenario, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. It's not really damaging nor much of an "issue", just an annoyance. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. My name is Zachary Drumm! The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. Low oil level? A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. Reinstall the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Install the timing chain tensioner. A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . So I have a chatter on cold start. Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. FCPeuro has the best price. Lexus says this is normal. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. Will an oil change stop timing chain noise? Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. front mid section. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. 2013 equinox 2.4 DI. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. But don't open the beer right now. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. . Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. No codes/DTC? E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. We know some methods! 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. If any seals are damaged, replace them. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . __________________________________________________________________. If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. How long will a rattling timing chain last? The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. But the rattle goes away in seconds, and the SUV performs amazingly. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Then stop at the TDC mark. Published, Your email address will not be published. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Subscribe for updates! It may not display this or other websites correctly. 30. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Car won't start. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. 54. That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? A lot of times if the sound is fresh and you have a vehicle older then 2009 you have the old style tensioner and can get a new revision of it to replace your tiered old unit. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. Welcome Guest! The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. Are you sure it is not something else? If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Check "Remember Me?" only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. Submit! 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. Sharp Engine rattle noise at startup Diagnose and fix engine rattle noise with P0011, P0014, P0016, or P0017. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. Without it, the engine will not run. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. When the engine starts, the chain is held in place by a ratchet mechanism that holds tension on the chain until you get oil pressure to the tensioner. To make a long story short, two of the . At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. How much does it cost to replace a timing chain on a 2013 BMW X3? Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Wait 3 seconds. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. The Harley folks know where to get it. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). 17. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. Almost any BMW has the potential to run for up to 200,000 or even 250,000 miles with proper maintenanceand there are always going to be outliers that go further. 32. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. It is not the same rattle. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. Timing chain maybe? 24. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Overall, it should take a qualified mechanic between 5 and 8 hours to replace the timing chain and all of the parts that go with it. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. JavaScript is disabled. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Once tted, with the actuator facing you, carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin. Check the spark plug seals for damage.